Season 1 Episode 8
Summary
Holidays belong to all of us and we want to make them meaningful for ourselves and our individual families, even within the context of our larger families and communities. Looking toward holidays, we often feel overwhelmed/unsure/anxious/ALL the feelings. These feelings are a message from inside begging us to get clear around our healthy boundaries and hold them for ourselves. This week we have a seriously robust conversation about how to value our own experiences, find out what our edges are and express them as non-negotiable yet loving boundaries. We talk about what a boundary really is, why it’s the most loving thing in the world, how to communicate it clearly in a way others can understand and how to HOLD it.
We take on a listener question about what to do with unwanted feedback from your in-laws when it feels like a criticism of your parenting (Jess’s answer is so masterful it leaves Layne speechless).
Join Very Good Mother’s Club to be a part of our community and get your questions answered on a future episode!
Find Jess at Jessica Hover on Youtube and @jess_hover on Instagram
Find Layne @enquiryco on Instagram
Transcription
Jessica:
Okay guys Layne is going to tell us a story- guys could you not? Could you wait? No talking too much. Okay tell me your story.
Layne:
Okay, this morning I had a truly terrible dream. Sometimes it happens. I never die in dreams. I don’t know if that’s a thing that other people can relate to but I can have very, very scary ones. Usually they have a sense in them that I know and the bad guy knows that I’m going to lose. But then we’re gonna go through this whole thing to outsmart them and then letting it happen. There is usually like a dance I always have this kind of strained relationship to the bad guys.
Jessica:
Is it the same bad guys or new bad guys?
Layne:
New bad guys. I am a person who sometimes has recurring dreams. I do have some old ones that recycle and I’ll wake up and think that I have already done that one. Sometimes very rarely, I will realize in the middle of a dream “Oh I’ve done this before.” And it’s like I look at that guy and we’re like we’ve been here before. Will I make the same choices? And there is this weird psychological thing.
Jessica:
Do you sleep talk?
Layne:
Yes.
Jessica:
Do you sleep walk?
Layne:
Never.
Jessica:
Really? Okay.
So does Connor know when you’re having a bad dream?
Layne:
Not usually. There have been instances of like you really talked last night.
Jessica:
Do you ever wake up crying?
Layne:
No.
Jessica:
I have. In hard seasons I’ve had some where I wake up crying.
Layne:
That makes sense. So I had what we’ll call like a gentle nightmare this morning. I am in this thing with these people and there are these wild animals and it seems like I’ve escaped and sort of circle back with the other people who escaped but then actually it turns out, I’ve been betrayed in this dream, but that part is not important. The important part is that my overall psychological stance has always been like if there’s a zombie apocalypse. I’d rather be a zombie than fight zombies. So I’m just gonna sit down and get turned. Oh, there’s a bear. I’m just gonna die.
Jessica:
Wait, that’s how zombie’s work? You become one?
Layne:
Yeah
Jessica:
Oh man. I’ve never seen zombie shows.
Layne:
They make you into a zombie.
Jessica:
Wow okay so much to learn on this podcast.
Layne:
Yes. Okay. But the point is…
Jessica:
That you don’t fight it. You just let it happen?
Layne:
Yes. Okay. While I’m not a person who has ever like veered into the realm of suicide so much, I’ve never had a super strong commitment to like I’m gonna stay alive. I want to be here. Yeah, I did run some thoughts by a therapist once like, are these suicide ideations? And she said, not quite, but let’s talk about that. In my deep self there isn’t a full commitment to like I’m gonna live; I want above all else to be here. So this morning I had this dream I was in this thing. And I was like, negotiating like, “This is so stupid. Why don’t you kill me now? And it will be the same.” Because animals will eat me the same whether I’m alive or dead. Don’t be this rude. Don’t be so bad. And then I woke up a little bit and was in this like that half dream state where you like really are hovering between your conscious and your unconscious. And I felt this fire and this rage come in, where I was like F*** that! Why don’t you kill it? You should kill them and stay alive. And I felt this like hot fury at the idea that someone was going to take my life away from me and be like, Oh, I will keep my life and in a way that I maybe not ever have engaged in before. So it felt very powerful. I immediately put on a meditation and was like, Whoa, let’s like stay in this is cool rage that says I’m the precious thing worth protecting and I’m gonna live.
Jessica:
That’s beautiful. Very cool. And exactly what we all want for ourselves right? It’s just that we value us and we value this life. So much that we fight for it. Yeah.
Guys, welcome to our podcast. My name is Jessica Hover, my friends call me Jess. That’s how my internet name became Jess Hover.
Layne:
And I’m Layne Deyling Cherland and this is Very Good Enough a podcast from Very Good Mothers Club.
Jessica:
Today is all about boundaries. The reason we chose to talk about boundaries today is because the holidays are here, they’re approaching and we’re so excited about that. It’s so fun. But already inside of our community, the very good mother’s club online community, we’re getting messages from people being like, Hey, I’m about to be with family we haven’t been with in a long time and we do things differently and they have strong feelings about certain things or strong preferences or they say things one way and it comes off as criticism. And I don’t know how to handle that. And so really what it comes down to is a bit of a boundary conversation. Right? That’s why we want to talk about it. Layne has come equipped with a phone full of notes if you’re watching the video you can see. So we’re gonna let Layne take the bulk of the meaty conversation we’re having. And then at the end, I’m going to take an anonymous question that someone submitted.
Layne:
So the framework for boundaries I’m gonna call this segment boundaries by Lane featuring Dr. Sam, because I work with a woman called Dr. Sam Raider who just did this very, very beautiful course about boundaries, which is a topic that is my passion anyways, and I come to this equipped with some like very hard fought lessons that I had to really find in young adulthood. And it’s been lovely at this moment in my life when I thought I’m the boundaries lady to go on to work with this woman who has so much more to say about it. And I’m the precious thing worth protecting actually came from her. Of course when I give credit where it’s due so I’ll highlight which parts of me and which part to her. But I do have a framework of boundaries that’s very important in my work in early childhood, but it comes out of just my experience of being a human and having to find out what does it mean that you’re you and I’m me and that your environment exists and that I exist separately from it. And how do we how close can we get before we become entangled and fused and in mesh like where how I do that you want to be close to me, I want to connect and I want my heart is open and there’s like this lovely idea of like a playground of souls who just get to be together and experience one another. But if you don’t know where you begin and the other person ends, then you end up in a space that is mushy and tangled and unsafe.
Jessica:
Yes. And we both have tendencies just in ourselves as women to be deep feelers. And I know I’ll speak for myself codependency is something that I’ve struggled with and had to identify where is it and sometimes it surprises me where I’m like, No, I’m sure not codependent here and then I realized that there’s something that’s just a bit off and it has to do with feeling other people’s feelings and then trying to protect other people from the consequences of their I don’t know lives. And you become enmeshed and you start to lose where you start and end and they start and end and you become this one mushy, gooey thing. It’s not nice.
Layne:
It’s not nice, it’s not safe. It’s not respectful of yourself or of the other person and it doesn’t allow for flow. So I used to think and I felt very opposed to the idea of boundaries as the idea that when something’s going wrong in a relationship, you need to nail down a list of rules that everyone’s going to abide by, and everyone has to agree to. And now it’s my responsibility to force everyone to behave according to…
Jessica:
What would be an example of a list of rules somebody might connect with boundaries?
Layne:
When I was a young person, I was in a Christian circle trying to date. There were all of these things about either people who did want to date each other or people who like had a vibe, but we’re trying to not date each other. And it would be like, well, our boundaries are we don’t hang out after this amount of time and we don’t touch each other ever and we don’t this and we don’t that. And he’s not allowed to talk to me about this thing. And it’s just like this list of bullet points of tiny little behavioral tweaks that are trying to control whatever the bigger thing is in the relationship. Which in those circumstances was like, it seems like they are a person that you have a vibe with and it’s not healthy for you so probably you need to not be near them.
Jessica: It’s like all these little types of things controlling, okay, that makes sense.
Layne:
And it puts the onus on one person or the other to like, make it be that way. So now you’re in this kind of tangling thing where you’re sort of like, either trying to be super rule following or you’re nitpicking. What I have learned is that that’s actually not what boundaries are foundationally. Boundaries are your pre-existing edges. They’re a thing that you have to find through exploration, starting when you’re two years old and you realize like, I’m not the same as my mom and now I have to run into her crash again and find out what it means that she’s someone and that I’m someone and we spend our whole life doing this sort of subconscious exploration, like what is needed and what’s me and what’s not me and where’s the line between those two things. So the thing that in my 20s that really opened it up for me, I was in a very entangled situation with somebody that was feeling so painful for me and I read in a book that I can’t remember so I can’t give accurate credit but someone compared boundaries to your ribcage. And it was like the sunrise for me like, oh, I have this body. I’ve already live in it. I don’t have to build a ribcage. I just have it. It’s job is here to hold up my frame and to protect my very most vital pieces- the pieces of myself that if I don’t have those, I cannot live. If my ribcage were removed, I would puddle on the floor. Literally my frame my whole frame would change and my heart and my lungs and my inside organs would be exposed and vulnerable and available in a way that would make me unwell, desperately desperately unwell. So it’s not my ribcage, is not this list of rules that I have decided about where I’m like, I’ve got these precious things to protect inside and I’m gonna place this thing here and this thing over there and Oh, you didn’t like that? I guess I’ll just move it like I can’t move a piece of my rent which is there already. And I can ignore it to my detriment, but that doesn’t make it go away. And so to take the body analogy further, your most foundational, existing boundary is your skin like you live in this body. It has this frame and it’s encased in this skin. And if I were to come and cross that boundary, you would be wounded, and I would have damaged you and that’s a problem in our relationship. Even if you said, stab me, that’s so generous of you-I’ll let you stab you, Layne. We would still whether or not we agreed to it, be in a circumstance where I have wounded you and I now have a genuine guilt of having caused harm and your hurt. So it’s not a negotiation between us of what are your little rules and can you say yes, or do I say no, it’s like actually I just live in this body and this is where the edge is. And if something crosses here, there is damage. Like these same lines and edges have to be respected in order for there to be health and wellness and appropriate flow between people. So that for me kind of relieves this pressure of like, gosh, I guess I have to make rules for all my friendships. I have to know what’s good and I have to be the one to enforce them. Instead, I got to explore-just find them. I just find that oh, something weird happened there- that’s so strange. And think about what happened and go oh, I think that actually crossed the boundaries- odd. Now I know where that boundary is
Jessica:
And finding the edge would look like an awareness of your own bodily reactions, emotional reactions, the feeling of tension when somebody says a certain thing or treats you a certain way invites you to a certain event and you feel overcome with anxiety and tension but you feel like you have to say yes, but perhaps actually, you could be aware of that situation and realize like oh, those those cues going off in my body could be a boundary, like a flag that there’s a boundary here. You don’t have to go do that thing.
Layne:
Exactly the same as if you like, bumped into me, I would be jostled or if you stepped on my foot. I’d be like, Oh ow! You’ve now come over too far and it’s causing a response in me. So they are instinctive. There’s a piece of this that’s about listening to your animal responses to the things that happen in your life, particularly anger. Like when you feel angry, it’s a message to you from inside that something has happened that’s not okay with you. Well, something is not okay with me. I am like, pretty disassociated from my anger a lot of the times. Anger seems like a thing that’s bad that I should be like, oh, sorry, I’m having such a response, which of course I’m responsible for how I would react. But the feeling of anger realizing that the inside is likely that someone has actually come into too close a proximity and crossed over one of my existing lines that I need to go oh, okay, I hear the message. What should I do here? Great. I need you to move out of this piece of my territory. Thats another good Dr. Sam one when she talks about nature videos where there are lions, and when another animal comes into their space, a napping lion is suddenly very aroused and uproared and is like whoa, hey, get out of my space. But then when the other animal moves, we’re back to nothing. It’s not this drama. It’s not like a whole deal. It’s just there’s an instinctive thing that says like, Well, hey, this is space. And it’s just a knowing of where your lines are, which we learn over time.
Jessica:
Something that comes to mind that we haven’t talked about, but I think it’s totally relevant. So like, sometimes you you might find yourself with a person who is basically calling something a boundary, but then you’re like, this seems off like it seems like something is just wrong. How can I express this? Okay, here’s the visual and then you’ll get it. If you have a sunburn and I give you a hug. My heart is coming from a place of love. My expression of love is actually not an expression that would cause pain, but you have a wound. So my expression of love hurt a wound. So there’s also this piece of awareness where we if we feel something and we’re like, oh, this thing set me off. And then you’re processing with your loved ones, and they’re going Oh, honey, that’s actually not. I don’t know if that’s a boundary I wonder, is there a wound somewhere back there that needs to be addressed in helping you identify your boundaries. I’m kind of thinking of certain people I love. We could walk around with boundaries, which are really a wall keeping us from a lot of goodness, and the wall is there to protect us from something that’s really painful right now. And if we can address whatever the pain is, then we can actually build the door into the wall and let some people in and it can be really precious. So I think even in that it’s figuring out what are the things that set you up that maybe they’re like a flag waving like oh, this is a red flag. My husband calls them black flags. We don’t do that. But if you’re finding everything is setting me off for these things that are actually not problems and are fine, but for whatever reason, it really hurts. It could be as simple as a picture of a sunburn hug. Like okay, we’ll go address that. Give yourself space to figure out why that thing stirred something up in you. And you can have a boundary until you’re healed so nobody can hug me until my sunburn is healed. After it’s healed I would love a hug, you know?
Layne:
Yeah, absolutely. I’m the precious thing worth protecting and protecting can mean what you need it to meet at a certain time, and then it gets to shift when that area doesn’t need to be protected anymore. Yeah, absolutely.
A practical about holidays.
Jessica:
Okay, love practicals.
Layne:
This was another big one. That was super eye opening for me as a young person. I had a meeting to go to with my family, where I knew that it was going to be sticky and nasty and that something gnarly was gonna happen. I was sitting with a person who was like a therapist, more or less, and was like, I’m gonna talk about this thing. I better be in attendance. He was like, “Don’t go.” And I was like, Excuse me sir. Did you not hear? My mother will be in attendance. I have to go.”
No, it’s a Thursday. You can have breakfast with your friends on Thursday. You can go to the beach on Thursday, if you’d like. You can go to Orange County and have this meeting with your family. If
you choose.
Jessica:
How old were you?
Layne:
I was twenty-three. I did got to the meeting. Nothing good happened. But the return of the power to me saying actually within your own self and your structure exists the power to decide what you do on Thursday. No one is putting you in a car and compelling you to go do the things. It actually starts when your mom says… yeah, it starts at what do I need to do? What do I need? What is the value? What is good for me? And by me like you could extend that around to your family and see what is good for this family that I’ve made- for these children. What do I want to do for Thanksgiving? What should we do for Thanksgiving? What would be fun for us? What would be joyful? What would make us feel safe and full? Great. I’d like to go see my family. How can that happen in a way that people are not going to cross over these existing boundaries and cause damage because they don’t want to. They’re my family who loves me. Nobody’s trying to hurt me. There just are these things in life that I now get to know because I’m the adult and am no longer a child in this circumstance. I get to assess what belongs to me, where are my edges, where are the edges around my family and my family culture, which we’ve talked about. Where’s the rib cage that makes sure that my most vital for me and for this family get protected when I go into this space? And the first one gets to be, I’m not coming. I love you guys so much. I’ll let you know about Christmas. I’d love to FaceTime you on Thanksgiving. I just want to put a bunch of permission out to say like you’re allowed to do- that you’re allowed to do that. If you go you also get to have an exit plan where you get to know between you and the other adult in your family. If these things happen, we’re gonna go ahead and head home and we’re gonna finish up at home. You don’t have to tell your family about that, but you get to go and you get to leave whenever you like. We can feel very trapped when we’re not used to protecting our own edges and holding our space and feeling like we have to go do this thing. I have to stay till the end.
Jessica:
I can hear someone saying yeah, but if I don’t go they’re gonna lose it. They’re going to be so mad. They’re going to…whatever what would you say to that?
Layne:
Maybe? Yeah, maybe. But if that’s the thing that puts you in danger or not even danger, but threatens the things that are vital and important for you whether that’s the way that your children get treated in their interactions with other adults, whether that’s the way that your sister speaks to you, or you have this brother in law who’s always this way and triggers something because I have a wound because of whatever, like whatever the vital things are inside. And that’s not- that’s not my preferences, and a lot of things can happen that are not my preference, but knowing that I feel this kind of anger tells me this is not okay. And I’m actually gonna not have this in my life. They might. They might get mad at you, but you’re the precious thing worth protecting. Their feelings belong to them. And you can work through feelings with your family and you can care about them and love them. But know your responsibility is the thing that lives inside your proverbial skin, or inside the edges that stretch around your family.
Jessica:
That makes a lot of sense.
Layne:
I’m sorry, if there’s somebody who’s going to feel really mad about that in your life. You deserve protecting.
Jessica:
Totally. And then the gift is knowing you have permission not to go means you are entirely involved in the decision to go so now you’re going as a whole powerful person. There’s nobody to resent because you’re making the decision you’re going and it’s going to be great. But in going there may be some things you need to communicate on the front end, about your time together. Will you speak to that?
Layne:
You can with yourself, spend some time to try to think about what are a couple of things… this is brand new for you so just pick two, but what are the two things that will be really important for me to thrive and have flow and feel like I know that my entity is separate from their entities in this space. And then you call your mom and you be like, I’m so excited to have Thanksgiving with you this year. I can’t wait. I’m going to make this pie. I’ve been looking forward to it. I do want to let you know ahead of time, I’m not going to talk about this thing. Fill in the blank thing. It causes a problem for me. I really want to enjoy our time together. I’m actually quite committed to enjoying our time together. And what that means for me is that I’m going to not talk about that. So I just want you to know ahead of time that that subject comes up, I’m gonna go ahead and excuse myself and just circle back later. Also my son is going to have a nap every single day from this time to this time and I’m making plans on my end to make sure that that’s okay, we have our own car but I just wanna let you know for whatever the plans are in the day. The priority for me is going to be that he’s going to sleep from this time to this time in a bed.
So I’m gonna be in the car. I’m not bringing a play pen. I just am giving a heads up for you so that you know. So I love you and I’m really excited to see you!
There’s no negotiation. There’s no, what do you think? This is what I’m gonna do. Love you can’t wait to see you. It’s gonna be the best. Oh, I actually gotta go. See ya!
Quick is great. No negotiations, because you’re not in a tactical what should we do about our relationship? You are identifying your edge. And you’re just letting them know this is right here. This is how I’m going to be here. And it’s not, you can’t say this to me. And Mom, you can’t ask me to do this other thing. It’s, I’m not going to talk about this thing. I’m going to go ahead and excuse myself. Also I’m going to make sure that my baby sleeps in a bed at this time.
Jessica:
And then when you go and every time it’s nap time someone goes really you’re leaving but we’re just gonna do this thing. You just hold it.
I actually just did this. I went on a trip- I was with people that I love, but also kind of tumultuous circumstances. And I held to the nap thing and I was always I will be leaving to go back to the place where I’m staying for my daughter to have a nap. And I just held it and I just held it even when emotions were expressed of timing differences or whatever. It was my commitment to me to not waver on it because I tend to be mushy, I tend to be like, Oh my gosh, this feels a certain way for you. And I just chose like nope, this time around. I’m not going to do it. Because it’s hard enough to go on trips with a little baby or toddler. It’s extra hard if they’re sleep deprived and I’m sleep deprived. And so it just wasn’t a line I wanted to cross and it went really well. And everybody was excited for the most part to honor that boundary. There were moments when she’s still sleeping and they wanted to go to lunch. And so I just was like yeah, I’ll meet you. I’ll meet you there. You just tell me where and if you guys are ready to order,I’ll tell you my order. And when she wakes up we go and it was just a commitment that I had communicated ahead of time. But overall, they’re excited to do it. And they even built the day around it. And it’s the idea that they’re excited to love me in a way that feels loving. So if I can communicate what feels most loving, then we all are on the same page and it goes really well.
Layne:
Yeah your clarity sets them up to successfully love you which they want to do. They’re trying to love you. They’re just doing it their way according to their training according to the old patterns. But you saying this is how it is- this is how I am. This is what we’re going to do. My edge is not going to move. There are people who are unfamiliar with boundaries and we’ll need to test that. It’s new. It actually feels so good on the other side most of the time. There are people in the world who are super wounded and they’re going to respond in a very wounded way and that’s just one of our facts of life but for the most part, with tiny little children all the way up to old, old old men the feeling of a person who is clear and solid and firm and loving, holding themselves and being clear with you. Everyone knows what to do. It’s refreshing.
Jessica:
And then when you have the boundary set and you’re holding to it, there’s a wholeness in you and kind of fullness that when you’re with these people you’re going to love them better. You’re going to love them more intentionally, you’re going to connect more deeply. There’s not going to be that oozing of resentment and frustration, because there doesn’t need to be because you guys talked through what needed to be talked about, and you’re not talking about the things that would potentially cause little grenades to go off.
Layne:
And you know what you’re going to do so it doesn’t matter how they respond to you. You’ve got you- you’re the one holding your line.
Jessica:
Yeah, I did tell someone recently that they were not allowed to yell at me, and it felt kind of funny because you shouldn’t have to tell someone that but at the same time, I had taught some people that they were allowed to yell at me. And it felt important to say otherwise. And now that it’s been lived out where I’m not on the receiving end of yelling phone calls, it’s really good. It’s really good overall. So I think it can be as obvious as that.
So somebody submitted a question. Basically, they’re going to go visit in laws and the in laws are very focused, hyper focused on the toddler’s eating habits, and continue to offer I think it’s meant to be loving, but it comes off as very critical advice, like they’re not eating enough or they’re not eating the right things, or they’re not eating with the right utensils or whatever it is. And so the mother was writing to us saying, I’m not really sure what to do about this. I just feel bad about it. When they say it, I feel upset. I feel insecure. I feel like my child is doing just fine and the doctor is not concerned about their eating habits. And so the question came up in the community, we actually processed it on a call but one of the main things I would say to anybody who is going through something similar because I think it’s a really common experience is whether they’re your parents or your in laws they’re most likely coming from a place of love. Probably like obsessive love for this child and really wanting to see this kid be so healthy and often they are not thinking you’re doing a bad job, but we as the parent are already pretty insecure and hyper focused on our own kids doing okay, so ideally, you’re in a situation where your parents or in laws, think you’re doing a good job, but they are coming off critically for a number of reasons. One that came up was cultural. So this family was a cross cultural family and they were saying like, the way that one side of the family speaks is direct and blunt, and feels offensive to the other culture but the other culture would come off soft and sugar coated, which is actually offensive to the other. So there’s that element to it. There’s the element of just assuming love, so you don’t go into it, assuming they are critical of you. And then there’s the clear communication piece, which either could look like you speaking to your in laws, saying, Hey, I appreciate you saying this. I know it’s coming from a place of love. The doctor is not at all concerned about this little ones eating habits and actually I’m not either if you want to know I’m picking some other battles right now here are the things I’m thinking about since you love this kid so much. You could even join my team and helping to ensure that this kid is doing X Y and Z. Or in addition to or and and you could do both. You could enlist your partner because if these are your in laws, your partner can talk to their own parents on behalf of you guys as a family unit. And so then they could say like, if it was me and Shaun, he could speak to his own parents and say, Hey, I know you guys are coming from a really good place, but it’s actually creating some anxiety in in Jess around her parenting and she’s doing a really good job and the little one is healthy and safe. So let’s not do that anymore. And if you are really concerned about the eating, feel free to reach out to me, your child, and we’ll process it through and if you have great ideas I’ll then decide if that’s something we should bring to the partner and the child or not. And I’ve seen all of that go really well. And most of the time if you’re dealing with healthy individuals, right, whole, healthy individuals, it goes really smoothly and everybody’s thankful for the clarity. Oh, thanks so much. Thanks for at least acknowledging that I’m coming from a place of love. Sorry, it was coming off critical. I don’t mean that I’m really excited about your parenting, you know, sometimes it could just lead to a lot of love and affirmation. And sometimes it just leads to we don’t address this topic because we disagree and that’s fine. We’re also allowed to disagree and still have a really connected relationship and be really supportive of this grandchild.
So that’s all. Do you have anything?
Layne:
No, I endorse this. I’m Layne Deyling Cherland and I endorse this message.
Jessica:
That’s how you know it’s a good one. Is it Thanksgiving already for them? Like are they gonna go be with their people, we hope that it goes so well. Or maybe next week.
Layne:
Thanksgiving blessings. Autumnal Blessings.
Jessica:
Exactly. The harvest is here. Don’t forget, if you’re watching this on YouTube, like the video and subscribe to the channel. What that does is just show other people that the stuff we put out is worth watching or worth listening to and if you don’t mind sharing it on your Instagram stories. We appreciate that so much. We put this content out because we really believe it’s going to help people and if it’s helping you in any way, please tell friends. We don’t want people to be alone in raising their families. We want them to be with a team.
Layne:
Happy holidays.
Jessica:
Okay, we’ll see you soon guys! Have a good one.
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